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	<title>Comments on: Would the engineer please stand up?</title>
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	<link>http://www.nobugs.org/blog/archives/2003/11/16/would-the-engineer-please-stand-up/</link>
	<description>Thoughts of a software engineer</description>
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		<title>By: Anthony Bailey</title>
		<link>http://www.nobugs.org/blog/archives/2003/11/16/would-the-engineer-please-stand-up/comment-page-1/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Anthony Bailey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The comparison of software vs physical engineering practices works well for me when we&#039;re talking about using large and often third-party components such as software libraries. It&#039;s clear that most software component reuse doesn&#039;t involve as much consideration as you observe to be the norm in the more mature fields of physical engineering, and I thank you for that insight - there are lessons to be learned.

I do think there are good reasons why &quot;that level of formality never seems to get carried on down to the level of actual coding&quot; though. If I understand correctly what you mean by &quot;actual coding&quot; then it involves the engineering team spec-ing and manufacturing in-house a very large number of very small components (methods and classes and whatnot.) It seems that the systems being created are orders of magnitude more complex than a physical engineering team of a similar size would attempt, so less formality can be justified.

Over time though, every software engineer I know has seemed to find that even for agile and able thinkers, the optimum balance between formality and flexibility is considerably further away from &quot;it seems to work&quot; than they expect...!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comparison of software vs physical engineering practices works well for me when we&#8217;re talking about using large and often third-party components such as software libraries. It&#8217;s clear that most software component reuse doesn&#8217;t involve as much consideration as you observe to be the norm in the more mature fields of physical engineering, and I thank you for that insight &#8211; there are lessons to be learned.</p>
<p>I do think there are good reasons why &#8220;that level of formality never seems to get carried on down to the level of actual coding&#8221; though. If I understand correctly what you mean by &#8220;actual coding&#8221; then it involves the engineering team spec-ing and manufacturing in-house a very large number of very small components (methods and classes and whatnot.) It seems that the systems being created are orders of magnitude more complex than a physical engineering team of a similar size would attempt, so less formality can be justified.</p>
<p>Over time though, every software engineer I know has seemed to find that even for agile and able thinkers, the optimum balance between formality and flexibility is considerably further away from &#8220;it seems to work&#8221; than they expect&#8230;!</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Birkett</title>
		<link>http://www.nobugs.org/blog/archives/2003/11/16/would-the-engineer-please-stand-up/comment-page-1/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Birkett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Anthony: It seems that the systems being created are orders of magnitude more complex than a physical engineering team of a similar size would attempt, so less formality can be justified.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah, there&#039;s the old &quot;people want a good product *today*, not a perfect product 5 years from now&quot; tradeoff in the Real World.  If anything, I think greater complexity should ideally justify greater formality, not less, but if you have a fixed amount of &quot;developer hours&quot; then something has to give.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Anthony: It seems that the systems being created are orders of magnitude more complex than a physical engineering team of a similar size would attempt, so less formality can be justified.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, there&#8217;s the old &#8220;people want a good product *today*, not a perfect product 5 years from now&#8221; tradeoff in the Real World.  If anything, I think greater complexity should ideally justify greater formality, not less, but if you have a fixed amount of &#8220;developer hours&#8221; then something has to give.</p>
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		<title>By: Kimberley Burchett</title>
		<link>http://www.nobugs.org/blog/archives/2003/11/16/would-the-engineer-please-stand-up/comment-page-1/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimberley Burchett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I like longer blog entries, as long as they&#039;re not just stream of consciousness.  I like your entries a lot.  If you&#039;re feeling like your entries are too long, you should check out &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.gotdotnet.com/cbrumme/&quot;&gt;Chris Brumme&#039;s blog&lt;/a&gt;.

Also, feel free to just chop off a long entry abruptly, if you feel the domino effect of idea association has gotten out of hand.  I&#039;ve done this a couple times, and I find that it&#039;s useful to have gotten it out at least.  It makes the thoughts more concrete and easier to work with.  And if you&#039;re lucky, people will post comments that will take you in directions you might not have thought of on your own.

In short, don&#039;t strive for perfection, just aim for something that has a minimum level of interesting-ness.  It&#039;s up to you what that level is.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like longer blog entries, as long as they&#8217;re not just stream of consciousness.  I like your entries a lot.  If you&#8217;re feeling like your entries are too long, you should check out <a href="http://blogs.gotdotnet.com/cbrumme/">Chris Brumme&#8217;s blog</a>.</p>
<p>Also, feel free to just chop off a long entry abruptly, if you feel the domino effect of idea association has gotten out of hand.  I&#8217;ve done this a couple times, and I find that it&#8217;s useful to have gotten it out at least.  It makes the thoughts more concrete and easier to work with.  And if you&#8217;re lucky, people will post comments that will take you in directions you might not have thought of on your own.</p>
<p>In short, don&#8217;t strive for perfection, just aim for something that has a minimum level of interesting-ness.  It&#8217;s up to you what that level is.</p>
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